Intolerant Islam
If you’re involved in the skeptical and/or atheist community, it’ll have been pretty hard to miss the University College London Atheist, Secularist and Humanist Society storm in which they were asked by their union to remove this image from a promotional Facebook page for their weekly pub meet because someone had found it offensive and complained.
In order to show solidarity for their cause, I uploaded the image to Facebook and set it as my profile picture for about a week. I then changed back to another photo and went on my usual life.
Until today.
Someone who is a Muslim discovered the picture and found it offensive. He politely requested I remove the image -
“…just a kind request to either hide it or completely delete the picture… “
- a request I declined because I do not follow Islamic scripture or rules. This quickly descended into a bit of a debate as to whether I should remove the photo or not before he reposted the picture onto his Facebook wall with the comment
So THIS is what our little “Journalist” is uploading… And he claims it’s “freedom of speech” ok Rhys Morgan.. We’ll see
That’s when the strawman arguments, ignorance and threats really began.
As I’ve discussed in a previous post, your race isn’t the same thing as your religion. This is something I mistakenly thought was obvious to everyone. So posting an image showing Jesus and Muhammed sitting down with an undisclosed drink in a bar is not racist. Calling me a racist for posting an image that has nothing to do with someone’s race is completely at odds with logic and reality. Hell, this particular image wasn’t even satirising religion, unlike pretty much all other Jesus and Mo comics.
However, this didn’t stop them!
What a fucking prick i upload a pic of spongebob and thats ‘racist’ watch no one say nothinf, if i call a gay person gay and said freedom of speech everyone would go mad, so rhys u can u can fuck off if u think your gettig away with this u racist cunt
Doyle is a fuckin G this prick takes it too far i swear he was being racist before too
I don’t understand there next political words but as far as im concerned, I find this offensive, racist and disrespectful!!
Just saying ..calling someone gay don’t go against any religion, drawing the prophet muhammad(pbuh) does go against Islam, so show some respect you fucker, noone cares about your big paragraph ..end of the day, you’re being racist and tryna make it sound like you aint.
Ok you aint Muslim, then keep your racist thoughts to yourself you loser
rhys i dont know what i find worse your stupidityand ignorance to the fact that offending someones religion is racist, or your shit drawing skills.
wth ur the iggnorant 1 and disrespectful 1 we have faith sumthing that u lack and dont u dare talk about our religion u racist and yeah we are passionate about it so leave it alone and delete it as its getting pathetic
Just to clarify, I didn’t draw the comic. And the reference to me being racist before? That was for not agreeing that a god exists.
Someone also decided to pick up on the fact that I am a skeptic and therefore I am a solipsist.
Skepticism is basically being hipster, but with everything bar fashion and music. Skepticism brings about a theory that the world doesn’t exist, woop, go skepticism
Complete and utter misrepresentation of the ideology of skepticism. What was described there is solipsism, a belief I don’t agree with or have ever identified with. However, on pointing out I wasn’t a solipsist and that the UCL ASHS being asked to remove it was an infringement of their freedom of expression, all sorts of odd ideas came pouring through the cracks in their arguments (mainly consisting of “YOU RACIST. I’M OFFENDED. REMOVE THIS.”)
Empiricism, endorsed by famous skeptic, David Hume, lead people to solipcism (little Rhysy knows a little bit). Thanks to Hume’s skepticism, we have solipcism.
Hipster? Being skeptical is just going against the flows of then norm. Pretty damn hipster
I failed to grasp the leap of logic this made. One person apparently went from being skeptical to solipsistic, therefore all skeptics are solipsists? Doesn’t quite make sense to me. But again, this didn’t stop them trying to argue that I was wrong.
Ah the old “fact-value gap”. I didn’t imply all skeptics (different from skepticism) were solipsists. I said skepticism brings it about
Hume’s skepticism brought about solipsism, the skeptic himself did not
At this point, I was just utterly baffled by any point being made here so I clarified my position as a skeptic.
Ashar, I still fail to understand what the fuck solipsism has to do with this?
I’m an evidence based skeptic – if there’s not evidence for something (most of herbal medicine, religion, psychics and mediums) I won’t believe it.
As I’ve explained, I reposted the photo to show support for a group being censored.
Knowing that he had nowhere to go with this, he then started the strawman arguments.
Guys! Let’s endorse Hitler’s ideology, but slightly less radical!
Woo go anti-semitism, hey Rhys? Hey, lets do it eh, it’s not racism, it’s a protest against their curly hair
Freedom of Expression eh?
Let’s kick out Hindus and Sikhs, I never really liked them. But lets do it to show that they’re ignorant of their own faith and the country that they live in
Others requested I delete the photo. Again, I said no. I’m not having my freedom of expression impinged upon because some people take offense to an image. They didn’t understand that basically demanding I remove it was an infringement on my freedom of expression.
rhys what has freedom of expression got to do with posting this picture!
Neither do I really, posting a provokative photo, against a people who has done absolutely nothing to you. Just go ahead and offend them, is this the values of this country? Fuck everyone else, it’s just me that matters! Freedom of expression!
Freedom of speech! Woo!! I’m saying that rhys likes to pleasure frogs in his bedroom and charges ppl 75p to watch! Freedom of speech! Woo
Yeh theres freedom of speech and taking the piss your just taking the piss, kindly fuck off?you make me laugh
rhys ur in a battle u can not win-u have no believe no body care but you have no right to put ur freedom of speech bullshit upon the rest of us-u dnt have to be a muslim we dnt c are bt DO NOT disrespect us and say it was to make a point as it is just pure iggnorant recism
This was all interweaved with either veiled threats of violence or outright threats
well we’ll see tomorrow…
ima burn your house down
Yeah and i could break your fukin nose and because im a dick i might:)
…rhys u can u can fuck off if u think your gettig away with this u racist cunt
All throughout I was called ignorant, faithless (as if this was a bad thing), pathetic, disrespectful etc etc.
Hilarious how the members of the “religion of peace” will threaten violence if you don’t follow their rules, eh?
Oh, but don’t think this open display of ignorance and irony is limited to Muslims. One only has to look across the pond to the case of Jessica Ahlquist (my new hero) to see even worse threats issued by Christians, all because she wanted the US Constitution and the separation of church and state to be upheld. The irony of the all-loving religious folk…
(I wish to stress that I don’t in any way think that all religious people are insufferable idiots without a dash of logic or reason. Far from it. The majority of them just get on with their lives. It the minority who take it too far and tarnish the rest with the same brush, which is entirely unfair.)
Well, I am catholic and that picture of Jesus does not offend me at all. you can put it on your facebook for all eternity if you want, fine by me
Support to you from Denmark.
But what can you do, someone enters your Facebook voluntarily because he knew he would be offended. NO, he was offended prior to entering.
He is just like a small child with a bad tooth, he just can keep the finger away.
The excitement just before it hurts/you are going to be offended….
Just found your site via Harry’s Place, and am in awe. You are clearly the finest living Morgan, and shall wear the garland of Capt Harry. Carry on, compadre.
Racism sorry* I look forward to your talk on the 11th. Much respect Rhy’s !
Racism? Like you asserted, it’s nothing to do with racist. What is racist is assuming that one race or race’s is Muslim . It;s a life choice, well mostly it’s not its beaten into their heads from childhood.
As an Agnostic English woman who grew up in a Muslim, Pakistani household, I fully support Rhys.
If you’re a Muslim and you’re offended. So what?
I too am deeply offended, not by cartoons but by what many priests across the UK say in Churches, Synagogues and Mosques. This doesn’t mean I start burning their effigies, making death threats, intimidating people, burning religious symbols (I refer to the flags that were burnt), intimidating people and dragging them through court (as fundamentalists did in the Prophet cartoons fiasco).
Why are governments and institutions accepting of this behaviour as an appropriate expression of “offence” from Muslims? Papers like Charlie Hebdo (France) had been poking fun at Christianity and Judaism for decades before they decided to give the Muslim faith the same treatment. Don’t Muslims have a sense of humour or proportion?
Keep up the good fight Rhys. Also, you might find some interesting arguments to support your position in the French documentary “C’est dur d’être aimé par des cons”. Perhaps you can find it with English subtitles if you don’t understand French. The English title is “It’s Hard Being Loved By Jerks”.
It follows the court case leveled by an Islamic organisation against the satirists at Charlie Hebdo.
This is becoming hilarious. I changed my fb profile picture in solidarity to the Jesus & Mo cartoon and today my business website got hacked by some Iranian hackers.
Guess what. I’ll keep my fb profile picture (and the website can be fixed).
You have my support Rhys.
Here is a picture of Mohammed to show my support….
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The majority ‘mild mannered janitors’ of the the UK have a huge tolerance for individual preferences and views – possibly the only genuine thing that seems to unite us Brits. But just don’t push us too far. We really cannot tolerate intolerance.
Let’s be clear the problem surrounds a minority of enormously ignorant bigots, some of whom are committing crimes when they threaten violence etc. They need to be dealt with firmly, in accordance with the law.
Let discussion and rational debate continue. It is good and healthy for all of us.
“We really cannot tolerate intolerance.”
Wise words, WillC. They should put this on a poster at passport control.
What is exasperating is that our political classes, student hacks and even it seems Headmasters do seem to want to pander to the intolerant.
We have traditions in this country, Enlightenment traditions of putting up with the whining of the religiously afflicted. But that’s the most they should hope for.
Stay strong in the face of these ignorant bullies. More power to your elbow mate.
I applaud you Rhys, don’t be pushed around by bigots and bullies.
I just posted that same cartoon on my facebook page in support of your efforts here. Anyone who doesn’t like it can **** ** *****.
Keep your back straight and your chin up, Rhys. I’m almost three times your age, and I sometimes despair over the depths of human intolerance and stupidity. People like yourself prove that I still have reason to get up every morning. I’d wish you Godspeed but a sincere “Well done and good luck, mate” will have to do!
Generally well said, I’m constantly bemused by the intolerance of the religious, particularly those who seem to think that if a Christian attacks someone for disapproving of another religion they are somehow being ‘supertolerant’!
One technical point though, I do seem to remember that the legl definition of racism in the uk includes religion as part of ones culture. Whilst I appreciate the subtle difference it is at least legally accurate in the uk to say that discriminating against someone based on their religion is by law racist. That said, a. I’m not entirely sure your detractors were legal experts or indeed speaking in a legal sense and b. that doesn’t necessarily mean that not following the customs of one particular religion is in fact racist.
Perhapse you should have pointed out to the Christians amongst your detractors at unless they add a blessing after using the prophets name they are being just as disrespectful as you are and are clearly themselves racist (both are breaking Islamic taboos after all). It is also probably worth mentioning that the same Hadith proscription against depicting Mohammed also extends to The drawing of all humans and animals. This tends to be ignored but hey, if we are going to ty to make people follow the rules lets try to make them follow the lot!
Anyhow, keep up the good work.
Stick to your guns Rhys.
Muslims will just need to get used to this type of criticism and they will.
Don’t worry there are many, many more on your side than theirs.
Perhaps your detractors online could learn to fucking spell before trying to abuse you. The grammar in some of those posts is so bad that a reader can only be left with the impression that that are uneducated, stupid pricks.
Which of course is what they are, but at least try not to tell the world… and especially when trying to defend the honour of your chosen God.
HA! True- no one should enter into an argument without first being able to spell it.
Plus Im pretty sure that the high number of swear words and the threat of violence (not the mention the suggestion of amphibious bestiality) would be more offensive to God than a doodle of Jesus and Muhammed hanging out.
Well done for keeping your cool Rhys! I’m sure it will mean good karma for you….heeheehee…
Stick with it Rhys. Won’t be long before you can shake the dust from your sandals and move on. You have a lot of people on your side.
Stay strong, Rhys. Your detractors’ reaction shows just what skeptics and freethinkers are really up against these days. It’s good to know there’s a whole new generation of young people like yourself and Jessica Ahlquist out there who are prepared to stand up for reason in the face of blind faith.
We seculars, humansists, atheists or any variation of freethinkers shall never surrender our hard-earned freedom of expression to Islamic Imperialist agensts, thugs, death-squads or any other totalitarian violent operators! We shall instead face the threat with the same resilience with which Britian and allies resisted and defeated Nazism and Fascism. If those street or internet jihadists think it is harder to defeat them than Nazies, think again! You are much easier opponents, as a cartoon would suffice to fight you in fact. Courage and resilience, fellow seculars, atehists, apostates et al!
I am proud of you Pedram Kazemi-Esfarjani; I graduated from UCL, the godless of Gower Street, and am delighted to read your fluent comments in support of all I believe in too. Thank you.
I support Rhys: I think the image is kindly, and about shared dialogue.
I’m also an alumnus of UCL. This silliness from UCLU does not surprise me. But you missed a trick on the skepticism= solipsism nonsense. Correct reply would have been “agreed. Just as I’m not saying ALL Muslims are violent, intolerant pricks, I’m just saying Islam leads to violent, intolerant prickery…”
Rhys – Keep fighting the fight. You are in the right. Don’t be intimidated by these savages. Keep a good composure and be polite in your responses and you will draw all of the fence sitters to your cause. You are in the spotlight right now, use it to point out the ignorance, stupidity and superstitious beliefs of these nutball fruitcakes. Good luck and watch your back. Research what happened to Theo van Gogh because you can’t trust, nor can you turn your back on, a follower of Islam for a second. They WILL follow up with violence. Watch your back brother.
I’m really impressed with your cool handling of the religionistas. They were clearly looking to provoke an intemperate response from you, fully justified though it would have been. your calm dismissal of their idiocy will sting them far more than an angry reaction. Do please keep it up.
Ahh the religion of peace is at it again! Bullying, threats of violence and arson, intimidation, etc all to enforce you to live by their codes.
Muslims. A non-Muslim is not remotely obliged to follow the laws of your religion. Get this, and get it fast before you turn moderates against you.
Rhys, you rock! I love that you’re standing up for what’s right in the face of thuggish threats from illiterate bozos. Nice.
I’ll echo that sentiment. You’re doing amazing stuff, Rhys – keep pressing on!
http://zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/islamic_mo_full/
I remember hearing somewhere, It was a muslim religious type expert in an interview, that nowhere in the koran is there any mention of anything to do with depicting Mo’
I’m not calling bullshit here, but what is the actual reasoning for this, other than some nonsense like we see far too often in the christian bible. Where someone will claim something is in the bible, but really isn’t.
The link above I found real quick, seems to show that someone changed the rules to fit their version. hmmmm….where have we seen this before? lol
I’m going to add you to my list of young people to keep an eye on. I am looking forward to the day when people like you and Jessica Ahlquist will be running for office and bring common sense back into this world. For too long our brain trust has been poisoned by past generations (mine included) Young people like this are our future, and for far too long we’ve let superstition corrupt common sense. The arguments against what these 2 are fighting for, shows the complete ignorance of the religious. That freedom of speech, and freedom of expression, even freedom of religion means nothing when it infringes on their personal view. I have seen far too much hate from these religious types to have any respect at all. Whatever happens….Just know that you made me very proud, and I know you will come out a winner in this. You’re already a winner in my eyes.
Well done Rhys, thank you for speaking on behalf of the many- we are far too polite to those extremist few who are threatening the very foundations of a democratic society, and one that should be completely secular.
Keep up the good work, and never be afraid to offend as it’s not illegal (yet).
Good for you, Rhys.
Freedom of speech means freedom to say things that won’t be popular. Otherwise the whiniest person gets to censor everyone else.
Good work, Rhys. Thanks for making a necessary noise.
Far too many people fail to consider why a legal right to free expression exists in the first place: for the explicit purpose of allowing us to say, publish or post things that offend or upset others. There’s no need, after all, for a laws protecting the right to say something no one would object to and seek to suppress.
Holy Wow there are some ignorant uneducated idiots around. From the comments you have posted not one even has the slightest clue what freedom of speech and expression is about.
Keep it up Rhys, you’re doing something right that’s for sure.
Your a very brave and clever young man. I wish I could honestly say I had just half of your smarts (and balls!).
But you have to admit, the “……pleasuring frogs…Woo!!” argument is utter brilliance. I bet that one had you stumped!
Keep up the amazing work.
I blogged about this here:
http://repatriated.posterous.com/offensive-behaviour
Rhys,
You need to get really good at Martial Arts and then allow them to challenge you to single combat, no weapons.
Hope you keep a skeptical mind!
Keep fighting!
This also happened yesterday, in London, as reported in The Independent and many other papers, but notably the Guardian couldn’t find space for it…
Well I wonder if there were ANY Muslims IN THE Hall, why they did NOT speak up against ONE extremist! You know how Muslims would say, that the “extremists” do NOT speak for them!
“OH you do not have faith” as if this is PROVING anything! Yes in fact when presured these people can NOT bring any evidence for their claims!
And then how can a DEAD PERSON be insulted who does NOT EVEN exist anymore and who CAN NOT even UNDERSTAND our language, this is the greatest miracle of all.
Besides MOSTLY Muslims “respect” their Profiteer, so one has to become a Muslim first to “respect” MoHammel in the way Muslims do… Keep up the good fight. Just remember Molly Norris from the “Draw Muuhammels Day” last year, who had to go into hiding, giving up her identity because the followers of the “peace-full” religion did threaten her as well…
Well done Mr Morgan-admirable restraint in the face of extreme ignorance shows the depth and strength of your character.
Hi Rhys,
good for you. There are many who are here to support your right to criticise any religion.
Don’t keep the faith,
Simon.
I have to admit that it amuses me that some people (including some people on this site) are saying that the Jesus and Mo thing shouldn’t be posted because it is offensive.
Do you know what *I* find offensive? Religious people asserting that homosexuality is a sin. Religious people asserting that atheists are going to hell. Religious people asserting that morality comes only from their particular deity. Religious people asserting that abortion is murder Religious people refusing to vote for people who aren’t of their particular faith. Religious people insisting that women cannot hold certain spiritual offices (example: priest). The list goes on and on and on.
You want to ban things because someone might find it offensive? Yeah, I’ll wait on when you have banned the above. Then we can talk. I won’t wait up.
Very, very good point.
I am a cat worshipper, and all of you people forwarding LOLcat images around are racists oppressing me.
There are many things prohibited to muslims, such as drinking alcohol and eating pork, that non-muslims do. The sight of people doing these things may cause offense to muslims, but such is a multicultural society.
The Jesus and Mo cartoon may be prohibited for muslims, it is not prohibited to non-muslims. It may be offensive to muslims to see me not wearing a burka, but so be it.
Yeah, maybe you should tell him to follow his own religion’s rules and not be going around the internet looking for images of Mohammed.
mxh, don’t go pointing out their hypocrisy! that’s offensive to their stupidity!
Rhys, Good for you, lad.
A well intentioned original post – bringing attention to something that deserved it – followed by a well written blog on somewhat unexpected consequences. (Actually I cant say I understand all of the quoted stuff).
This is indeed becoming a Streisand event, especially as, did I read this right, the original complainant uploaded the ‘offending’ image to … er … his own page?
This episode is a great example of why we should no longer tolerate religious tolerance. Why should one adjust one’s behaviour to suit another’s belief structures when one cannot find any rational foundation for that belief in the first place? People earn respect by their actions not because they have faith in something.
I tell it how I see it and call a spade a spade.
Rhys, you have my respect.
Keep it up!
1) If you are offended and respond by crude threats, it may be well to examine your own position to see if it is as good as you thought.
2) If you are in charge of students and either do not encourage free speech or actively try to prevent it, you are moral cowards.
If there are more like Rhys in his generation, I will be more optimistic for the future.
Nobody has the right to not be offended. Not even religious people.
9:123 O ye who believe! fight the unbelievers who gird you about, and let them find firmness in you: and know that Allah is with those who fear Him.
Of course this means:
Jews
Christians
Hindus
Bahai
Russian Orthodox Christians
Greek Orthodox Christian
Buddhists
Atheists
And who the hell think you Muslims are that we should “submitt” ourselfs to you and pay YOU the Jizya-tax? Even if this is just one dollar? No other religion I know of demands such a tax from others of a different faith.
I’m offended by the fact that you are not FIRST condemn the violence meted out by your “brothers of faith” against NON-Muslims. I am offended by the lies that come out of the Muslims world. I’m offended that in the danish cartoon case, not only were there FAKE cartoons ALSO used, one showing a man at a pig-squealing contest in France. I’m deeply offended that your “brothers” in faith keep killing people SIMPLY because they are NOT Muslims. I as a male DEEPLY offended by the sight of Muslima in her Head-Scarf (and YES EVEN BURKAS here in Vienna) because this piece of cloth suggest, that I the INFIDEL can NOT RESPECT A WOMAN and not see in her a “sexual” Object, like many of the Muslims doys and men do. I could go on, so when YOUR BEST society stops OFFENDING NON-Muslims PEOPLE all over the world, then and ONLY then could you demand not to be offended. In fact you Muslims seem to think to have a “divine” right to OFFEND Non-Muslims. BTW do you REALLY believe as your kooraan tells you that “Devils” are CHASED out of heaven by the usage of STARS?
^ This. x1000.
Nobody had the right to not be offended. Not even religious people.
We, the followers of the One and Only and Last Prophet of the True God, Vampiros, Blade, are really laughing our asses off at these accusations. Blade, the Daywalker, has killed more demons and viggas (whiggas, who pretend to be vampires) than Jebus and Mo the Pedo combined!
Ok, Mo the Pedo killed more Jews than us, but after all, we don’t hate the Jews, so we don’t care about killing them. Plus, we don’t like Kosher blood.
But this is outrageous! We all know that Blade is the only REAL son of Vampiros and could not only speak in a deep voice, was the sexiest man to wear sunglasses at night (no homo!). He was also resurrected from the dead (duh! same story with every vampire!), but he would also love garlic.
Have you heard Jebus or Mo the Pedo talk about garlic? And liking it? Damn, Jebus was lactose intolerant and Mo the Pedo was allergis to all girl above 10. As every good pedophile is.
We, the Followers Of Blade and our organisation, Slaves For Blade, are deeply disturbed that the other religions do not recognize Blade as the only and true loving God and Creator of the Universe.
Blade loves You sooooooooooo much, that he will kill You, if You don’t love him back or at least force You to remain in a room forever where they play Justin Bieber albums 24/7 and force You to watch Japanese Game Shows!!!
Repent, before it’s too late!
Blasphemy! Remove these cartoons RIGHT NOW!
We feel deeply offended by Jebus and Mo the Pedo being portrayed as prophets of God, but not Blade! Who is the ONLY and TRUE PROPHET!!!
Peace and Sharp Teeth,
Dr. Akula.
One would think that believers would be big enough to let their deities fight their own battles.
I agree that you have the right to freedom of speech, and I also think that the threats and responses to the matter are out of order. I do, on the other hand, think that the initial request which was level headed and politely written was a mature and appropriate response, and I from then on I think it would have been the right thing to remove the picture; after all you gain nothing from it yet it offends people, so why not? I’m not religious myself, but I keep my opinions to personal as I think they should be and in return I appreciate others not forcing their opinions on me. You say he doesn’t have to look at it but you have put it on a social networking sight – a tool used for sharing images and opinions so in a way you are maybe not forcing your views on him but expressing them in a way that is perhaps callous and as it is online, you are unable to put any sort of expression into your words, causing them to be taken the wrong way. I don’t think the internet is any way to have an argument/debate (call me a hypocrite) especially one of this nature so it was a bad idea to embark on this to begin with. I think the real debate lies in the morality of it; freedom of speech or respecting other cultures.
Sorry, just want to correct a small mistake; “but I keep my opinions to personal ” doesn’t makes sense, switch it for “I like to keep my opinions personal” apologies.
You like to keep your opinions personal? So what are you doing posting on a publicly accessible blog?
So as long as it’s asked politely, it’s OK to infringe on other people freedom of expression?
how is posting something on his own facebook page “forcing” anything on anyone?
“but I keep my opinions to personal”
Well, you’ve just post some of those opinions here, in public. Hmm…
freedom of speech and expression is something that is incredibly important and not everyone in the world has the privilege, I just think that there are more constructive things it could be used for, perhaps something that would benefit Rhys or his peers, making a difference with Government rather than doing something to ‘prove a point’. My main point is that it isn’t his freedom of expression I am questioning, only the point in his actions.. after all, don’t most agree that if there was more respect in the world it would be a better place? That works both ways. To take the image down would have been, lets say, the nicest thing to do.
Succumb to miserable idiots who have no argument except violence and threats? Don’t you realise where that leads?
And what’s with this respect business? I respect people who have achieved something. Nobody has a right to respect and that includes me.
Freedom of speech and expression means precisely that Rhys can exhibit something that shows the ridiculousness of major religions. without hindrance, without threats to him or his school.
It doesn’t work both ways when one side uses reasoned argument and humour and the other side resorts to violence.
The first request was reasonable – after all, if, for example, I was standing in someone’s way and after they politely asked me to move I refused because I have the right to, things would just get ridiculous. Responding to that request initially would have prevented all the angst that has been raised.. I think most people deserve respect, including Rhys, that’s why my comments include criticism of those responding in ways that are not helpful to the cause. Just don’t like seeing things like this blow up, people’s feelings get hurt – so what? – these comments belittling the offended and upset reinforce the fact that we live in a selfish society… after all, freedom of expression isn’t an issue in this country, surely as a liberal society we could use our freedoms to improve the world, rather that cause petty arguments?
@A
So when I look at the violent postings on a religious forum I can politely ask for them to be removed? Do you really think that is what would happen?
Taking down this particular image would certainly have not led to this. But when the Islamists ask for homosexual references to be removed because that offends them, would you take that down?When they say, as they do, they are offended by English justice and want Sharia courts, do we accept that? Just precisely where do you draw the line?
You see, erosion of rights in not sudden, it starts with small events such as this. I agree they have a right to be offended, but they have no right to react in this way. They should grow up and get over with it. Actions such as Rhys’s are perfectly legal and quite moral. People who disagree can just carry on disagreeing, but they should not issue threats and get their own way because of those threats. That is the behaviour of a playground bully and is despicable. Appeasing those threats would serve absolutely no-one. And by no-one, I include Moslems, they need to be shown that their medieval beliefs have no traction in a modern society.
Wrong! Removing the image would have been appeasement of a bunch of fastidious bullys plain and simple.
And respect has to be earned. At least when I was brought up. A polite request to impinge on my rights does not reward any form of respect just an equally polite request to fuck off and troll elsewhere.
“freedom of speech and expression is something that is incredibly important and not everyone in the world has the privilege, I just think that there are more constructive things it could be used for…”
There’s a very old joke, with the punchline “freedom of speech is much too precious to be given to you”.
I never thought I’d see someone so miserably, pathetically stupid as to use that argument seriously.
I don’t think comments like this are really necessary; they really help, do they?
Yes.
Sorry as for me, I can not “respect” a person who issues the order that a woman must wait 3 months before she gets married again, and then goes and “rapes” a young widow whose husband was just a short time prior to it killed by MoHAMmmels mens. And no HE DID NOT wait 3 months. Or how can I respect a man who turns out as a bad liar as your profeeter,who claims to have been at a NON-EXISTING JEWISCH Temple. So you BELIEVE on blind faith that this “Fairy-Tale Creature” took MOHMmel not only to Jerusalem but carried him into outer space to his “stoned-gawd”. Also I can not SHOW respect to a relic of a PAGAN past like you Muslims do when (and if) you bow down to a freaking stone in MECCA! Hey do NOT get me started on WHY I can NOT respect your Mohammel, who did not find beneath himself to drive out all the Jews from Arabia, even they lived there for centuries…..
The passivity of your response offends me. The idea that you should never express an idea that could offend someone is highly offensive.
Can you please delete your comment so I don’t have to see it and know that someone with your opinion is out there having it?
Whether “most agree” that more respect would make the world better is neither here nor there, because it doesn’t tell us whether or not those who think so are right. Nor does the question even make sense in the abstract. More respect for what? Drunk drivers? Child abusers? Serial killers? Nazis? I respect those Muslims who behave decently as people, and I respect all religious believers’ right to follow their religion and to proselytise for it, and to express their offence at cartoons. I don’t respect Islam as a belief-system, because it is both absurd and harmful. Nor do I respect any other religion, which to varying degrees have the same properties. I certainly don’t respect anyone’s right to threaten violence over a cartoon.
You have money. That offends me. I would politely and with a level head ask that you give me all of your money and from this day forward, deposit all of your paychecks in to my savings account.
Ok, there’s a polite and level headed request that you stop doing something that I find offensive. Should you acquiesce because I said it nicely? No? Then why should Rhys?
(call me a hypocrite)
Okay.
I’m outraged at that pic. I thought I was getting Jesus and Moe the Bartender
.
Keep up the good work fellla.
I’d like to think of myself as a “religious skeptic”. I’m sure that for most of you, those two words are mutually exclusive, and believe me, I’d probably think the same way if the roles were reversed. But I digress…
I’m not a Muslim, but I can appreciate that such an image would cause offense to a Muslim. It is written (as far as I know) that there should be no image of Mohammed displayed or portrayed ever and this is something that they are very stringent on. Fine, I accept that.
I’d like to hope that if any of you “real” skeptics ever went to a Muslim area, country, Mosque etc… that you would not disrespect their beliefs by taking a picture of Mohammed with you. The reason for this is that you are entering their domain and so you have to accept their rules and regulations whilst in their domain.
For this reason, I find what that individual did totally abhorrent and his juvenile. The internet doesn’t belong to any particular religion, race, creed etc… It belongs to the everypne. So long as one’s actions doesn’t impede on another’s rights, nor does it break any laws, then a person is allowed to do what they like on the internet. If another individual takes offense to it (say in this case), then he should simply change the webpage. It doesn’t matter if the first individual (again, in this case) posted a picture of Mohammed with the intent to antagonise the Muslims (not implying that you did). A person who claims it is against their religion should simply turn away.
Whilst I disagree with the actions of either individual in this case, The Muslim individual didn’t exactly hold himself in high regard with his comments. What he really should have done is just ignore it and turn away.
Ok so if rather than just jumping to conclusions you could maybe do even a quick google search and find out that mo in the Jesus and mo comic strip is a body double and not mohomad. You could also maybe take a second to realize it is being done on someone’s private Facebook page, not in a mosque or place of worship so that argument is ridiculous!
That you see in this anything other than the violence being threatened sickening is offensive to me and I politely request that you refrain from making such remarks in the future and have your original comment removed ….
Or perhaps we could just discuss this without resorting to threats of violence as was done by the childish and immature respondents to Rhys. This I believe is the way the do it in a civilized society!
It’s my sacredly held belief that you’re an idiot, and that you should keep your simple-minded opinions to yourself. The internet is for everyone, remember, and your badly written whining is oppressing me.
Wow… Your intolerance of adverse opinions is reminiscent of religious fundametalists.
lol, I thought that was a parody but Poe’s law reigned.
Wow… Your propensity to hopelessly miss the point is reminiscent of religious fundamentalists.
To clarify, that was parody. However (see below) I misinterpreted what Lotak had written, and was parodying something he hadn’t actually said.
Actually, Lotak, rereading your comment, I think I misinterpreted part of what you wrote.
The sentence “…then he should simply change the webpage” can either mean that the owner of the web page should delete content from his page, or that a reader offended by the page should stop looking at it. I assumed the former meaning, but rereading, it’s apparent that you meant the latter.
Although I don’t agree with you entirely, I’m sorry to jump down your throat like that. The sad thing is, many people genuinely are so contemptuous of free speech, that they’d actually make the argument I falsely attributed to you. It makes my blood boil when people glibly advocate censorship, and I wrongly turned my guns on you. I’m not sure if you’re reading this so late in the day, but I’m sorry.
There was totally uncalled for violent threats used by certain people who I doubt were educated enough to understand that its completely wrong. But people had the right to feel offended by this picture. You definitely had the right to post this picture but effectively people were asking you to show some decency and delete it. Many people have turned to atheist and there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with that. In fact I am myself an agnostic. But you should show some sort of morality and understand what is right and what is wrong. Was there any need for what you have done? You seem to be clever enough to understand that people would feel offended.
Racism’s definitions are ’1.a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one’s own race is superior and has the right to rule others.’
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.
This clearly shows you are not being racist so admittedly that has nothing to do with this issue. But I simply ask you to consider whether what you have done is right or whether(despite you having a right to do so) you really should have posted this.
Just so you know though, I admire the fact that your not afraid of admitting your an atheist and the courage you’ve shown in light of the disgusting threats you’ve received. They didn’t know any better.
What is “right and wrong” who pray tell me determines that? For a Muslim it is “right” not to draw a picture of MoHAMmel? Is it RIGHT to kill about 100 INNOCENT people all over the world, because a SMALL News-paper almost NOBODY in the Islamic World KNEW or heard about before printed some cartoons? Was it RIGHT for the DANISH Muslims to take these pictures and SHOW IT in the Islamic World? Did they not REPEAT the OFFENCE? They KNEW what could happen! Do not think that all the fuss was because the HEARD that cartoons were printed, no they were shown as images. First the 12 “originals” and when that didn’t do the trick, at leas three FAKES were used! So you Muslims accept that is OK to be lied to by your own “Leaders” and keep silent about it, after the truth is being told? So your Muslims comrades had no PROBLEM to REPRINT Copy them so that they could show it to their brothers of faith. At the very and, the ONLY PERSON to feel offend about it should be the “object” called Mohammel. But guess what he is DEAD. And NONE of your Muslims are his incarnation or any other such thing.
But what can one expect from the followers of a man who let a nursing mother to be killed in the middle of the night, just because she did not SHARE his point of view and composed a poem about him. And yes Muslims suckers I knew have defended this heinous crime, simply on the grounds the profetier was offended.
None of us has the right not to be offended ever. As a woman, as a mother, as an atheist, as a person I am offended several times a day every day. If we want freedom of thought and speech then we must accept that this is must apply to all whether you agree with them or not and however easily you are offended.
I’ve read all the comments and although I think Rhys is doing some good work here, I’m somewhat ashamed to be an atheist like some of you guys. We are living in a multcultural community, and so should all be respecting one another. I agree some of those comments we uncalled for, but so are a lot of yours. The internet could be used as a great force of good to promote equality and instead you’re all just using it to start petty arguments and use petty insults. I think you could do better.
The Jesus and Mo website makes it clear that ‘Mo’ is not in fact the Muslim prophet, so those Muslims of whom you speak can rest easy in their beds and find something else to worry about.
(Even if it was a depiction of Mohammed, I’d fully support someone’s right to publish it, of course. Devout Muslims obviously have the right to obey their own laws against depicting him, but they don’t have the right to impose those laws on other people. That to me seems to be the essence of a liberal and civilised society.)
The Internet could be used as a great force of good. To promote equality amongst all… and that goes too for those who feel they are shunned by the atheist and sceptic community because they have not got the literacy skills to express themselves in the skilled manner that would be required or acceptable by the more educated. The latter should not be the only ones who are the movers and the shakers of the atheist and sceptic scene. Those who have very little or no education are automatically silenced because they cannot verbalise their ideas, they are deemed intellectually handicapped, or cranks without a cause, so therefore of little use to the freethinkers. I say, give scepticism back its real identity and start looking outward, instead of remaining in ones tiny insular cosy narrow world. It’s only when one embraces the wider world with all its flawed people will they begin to make a difference. There are elements in the sceptical community who appear to pay lip service to sceptical thinking and all that that entails. They seem to only want to hang around those whom they consider are from the upper echelons, so as to probably impress upon them, and the wider blogosphere world their own greatness. It appears that way to me from where I’m standing. Their twitter followers are very revealing to say the least, and will show one evidence of that kind of insular superior groupthink. They appear to completely shun those who are not educated enough – thus creating for themselves an online ‘quiverfull’ elitist sceptical community. The freethought inquiry sources should be made cognisant of these kind of so-called sceptics, as they are not helping.
Fiona:
“I’ve read all the comments and although I think Rhys is doing some good work here, I’m somewhat ashamed to be an atheist like some of you guys. We are living in a multcultural community, and so should all be respecting one another. I agree some of those comments we uncalled for, but so are a lot of yours.”
Can you point to the comments from atheists that threaten violence?
That’s not the point. The point is that Fiona gets to feel superior to everyone else.
Way to stand up politely, but firmly for your rights. I don’t claim to know anything about freedom of speech in the U.K., but no just society can restrict criticism of religion just because it makes the religious upset.
-A supporter from Kalamazoo, Michigan in the U.S.
Ofcourse there will always be uneducated people threatening violence when this sort of incident occurs. Fact aside that you had a right to post this picture, it was a very disrespectful thing to do and people had the right to feel disrespected and hurt by what you did.
I think you fail to understand the point here. Freedom of speech is a basic freedom that living in this country we are afforded. This picture was posted with no malicious intent and fully within the scope of the law. End of discussion as far as I can see – I believe people have the right to be offended, I frequently am and I could mention a few Muslim practices that offend me and yet I find myself able to hold off on the threats of violence and death.
I don’t think that we should curtail our freedom of speech because it might hurt someones feelings or religious sentiments that we don’t necessarily agree with.
Who is saying that people DON’T have the right to feel disrespected and hurt?
Of course they have that right – they have the right to feel whatever they want to feel. However, that has nothing to do with somebody’s right to free speech. It’s so blindingly obvious, I can’t believe some people can’t tell the difference.
Jen’s comment times one million. She’s perfectly clear on this, and yet people seem to not be able to figure this out. The muslim in this case has every right to say “that’s offensive!” and express how they don’t like it. but Rhys has every right to say “tough luck”.
what’s so hard to understand? otherwise, we all bend the knee to any religion that chooses to be offended. Is that the world you want to live in?
You can’t believe how offended I get when people make fun of my yellow teapot. But I don’t normally threaten them or kill them, well I don’t do it very often. As for the Islam club, I understand that the entry fee is somewhat painful. So personally I have no intention of joining, in which case, like fellow non-members there is no reason why I should obey its rules.
P.S. Your school head sounds like a bit of a prat. (I was going to say that was the first word that came to mind, but it wasn’t.)
You think it’s painful to join? Try leaving!
I’ll be changing my pic to Jesus and Mo now as well. Rhys, you are a hero.
^^^ this for the win & my first thought when I saw the blog post.
Rhys, your courage is truly inspiring young man. I’m only up the road from you and will gladly buy you a brew or two once you’re old enough to enjoy an ale.
You got full support from Denmark! Kick some moron ass xD
They have the right to be offended, help them to exercise that right.
Rhys, you’re fantastic, and this whole issue is ridiculous and wholly unacceptable.
Are you planning to do anything about it?
I understand that is considered sacrilege to display an image of Muhammad, and they have every right to be offended. However, they also need to realize that he has every right not to care that they are offended. Maybe I’m offended that the men force the women to wear burkas. Does that mean that they have to stop?
I also find it funny that someone drew some strange connection that skepticism led to solipsism and therefore…. something… I didn’t really get the point there. How about how religion leads to religious extremism? What now?
Keep it up Rhys. I don’t know the rules governing freedom of speech/expression in the UK, but I hope you come out on top of this one, even though you don’t really exist and are just a figment of my imagination.
(see what I did there?)
Not believing in pink unicorns also can lead to solipsism.:)
Jesus and mo is a great website, I have started posting regular cartoons on my facebook page.
No threats of violence yet but then again I do know a certain caped crusader who hangs around gargoyles who can help me out.
I’m presuming threats of violence are illegal. Perhaps some action could be taken with respect to this.
Lol don’t say I didn’t warn you
I hope your evening is pleasanter than your day was, Rhys!
It’s an outrage.
You may have every right to post that image on your own websites and Facebook, but that doesn’t mean you are any less disrespectful.
It is disrespectful and people pointing that out to you are exactly right about it.
They are within their rights to express their discontent but do they have a right to treat Rhys in such a way? Threatening him with physical violence?
I am hugely offended by the horrible insults and threats against someone expressing their ideas. Therefore, the people making these comments, by their own logic, should remove them without another word… By any other logic, they should remove the violent threats which are in themselves potentially harmful, and possily illegal incitement. Then Re-post the comments explaining just why they’re offended. Start a healthy debate, move the world forward.
Hear, hear! That’s because there’s nothing respectable about ignorant people, or stupid beliefs, or teaching people to be ignorant. Asking for respect is just a childish way of saying “don’t criticize me because I don’t like it.”
Hear, hear!
What if this had been a political cartoon disparaging a particular political party? I’m sure some people would find it offensive. Would that make it ok to threaten to burn his house down, break his nose, expel him from school? If it was a political cartoon, no one would have given it a second thought.
Why does religion get special treatment?
Bah! I had to go look up “solipsism” and educate myself. Pity those boneheads attacking you couldn’t go educate themselves too.
“Bah! I had to go look up “solipsism” and educate myself. Pity those boneheads attacking you couldn’t go educate themselves too.”
“Ridiculing how they expressed themselves in writing should not be on the cards. For someone who had to go and ‘educate’ themselves to find the meaning of a word, you should have more understanding from that perspective. By all means, argue for the right to freedom of expression, but please don’t condemn the lack of literary capabilities of your opponents.
Discrimination against those with literacy problems per se is something that should be discussed in the sceptical community. As the propensity for those who were privileged enough to be educated, to walk over those with very little education seems to loom large in the underbelly of the community, whose ethos is the very antithesis of aforementioned. Well, that’s from my standpoint anyway. I could be somewhat wrong. But not totally wrong. One classic example: Rebecca Watson pointed out to a captive Dublin Atheist Conference audience the spelling discrepancies of a nuisance person who had been e-mailed her. To my mind that was such an unprofessional way to talk at a conference of any kind that embraces scepticism.
Marie-Thérèse O’Loughlin Goldenbridgeinmate39 | Survivor of an …
It’s amazing how much effort people will put in to find something that they find offensive.
Rhys, as normal you justify your position from a rational, logical (and admirably provocative) standpoint. Everyone has a right to be take offence, but no one has the right never to be offended. Criticism of your position is fine and i’m sure you would welcome it but it is an increasingly worrying trend that people feel that the internet offers them anonymity and the right to threaten person and property (Jessica Alquist is also a good example here). This is not the case and when threats are made that constitute a criminal offence perhaps we are obliged to hand this to the relevant authority?
Rhys:
Wow. Just wow.
The best turn of phrase for these guys I can think of is “irrefragible ignorance”.
From Spongebob to hipsters…
Just wow. I’m for once speechless.
Keep fighting the good fight!
It astounds me that we the UK, an “advanced” society in the 21st frickin century, continue to conflate race and religion. If you stop to think about it for just one second, is so fundamentally flawed. Genes: opinion. Can’t change: can change. And if they are intertwined through “descent” (UN quote above) then that’s something societies like ours need to address on behalf of its members- make sure children receive a balanced education, and can exercise their right to choose. (Yes, you, Michael twat Gove.)
RHYS, please go into politics. Or something. Just carry on making a difference- you give a glimmer of hope to me sitting here feeling frustrated and helpless.
“I don’t understand there next political words but as far as im concerned, I find this offensive, racist and disrespectful!!
…
wth ur the iggnorant 1 and disrespectful 1″
Unmitigated idiotic hilarity! Cheers Rhys, I needed that lunchtime giggle.
Wow, just wow. I think those people are just scared of you. Sounds nuts, doesn’t it? But they are. They are immature, you are mature; they are, let’s say, intellectually less developed ( I know I was at your age!), you write and argue at a level similar to national journalists. Ergo, they feel threatened by you, and go on the attack.
I’ll disclose something here: I converted to Islam about 10 years ago, and it is the best thing I have done in my life. Clearly, we would have strong disagreements on religion. But those people attacking you (so far in words only, thankfully) do not defend their religion, they defend the idea they have of themselves, which is a very different thing (I found Amin Maalouf’s “On Identity” and “In The Name of Identity” very good on that, his novels are brilliant too).
They talk about respect, but really they mean “fear me”, because they haven’t progressed beyond the “fight or flight” reaction, and cannot argue rationally, or even admit that they are wrong.
I have seen you are getting in trouble with your school about this: please keep us informed, it is absolutely unacceptable for a school to penalise you when you have done nothing wrong. I am bloody muslim, and I am not offended by this drawing. Even if I was, it is not encouraging attacks on Islam or its followers, and is therefore perfectly fine.
To my “brothers” out there: Don’t like a drawing? Don’t look. You live in a democracy, get used to it. Don’t like the way things are? Vote for change, set up your own party. If all else fails, no-one’s keeping you here.
I work for the National Secular Society and we’re increasingly seeing race and religion conflated. Freedom of Expression rights are being eroded, which is why we’ve just responded to a consultation about removing the word ‘insulting’ from Section 5 of the Public Order Act. People have the right to be safe but belief systems have no rights.
Some people want to be insulted/offended because it’s a way of getting attention and also of proving to their peers what good believers they are. Perhaps the right response would be ‘Calm down dear, it’s only a cartoon’ … or maybe not.
But, more importantly – you have sex with frogs?
What is it about “freedom of speech” that these people don’t understand? What is it about “no-one has the right not to be offended” that they don’t understand? Are they happy to present themselves as ignorant, illiterate bullies? This serves as a reminder that we in the UK must be alert to the fact that there are people from a variety of religious backgrounds who do not value our freedoms and who seek to impose their bogotry on the rest of us.
Too many great lines to favourite, but I guess mine is: “so show some respect you fucker”. Respect, indeed.
Just a FYI…racism can be based on religion. The UN definition of racial discrimination (at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Legal) is
“the term “racial discrimination” shall mean any distinction, exclusion, restriction, or preference based on race, colour, descent, or national or ethnic origin that has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of human rights and fundamental freedoms in the political, economic, social, cultural or any other field of public life.”
This definition has been taken to include religions which encompass more than one ethnic or national grouping, such as Judaism, Christianity, Buddhism, and Islam.
I think thats overly interpreting it to fit the required definition so as you can call the race card if someone insults your religion. Personally I wouldn’t see “descent” as to imply religious belief more to imply “Descent” in terms of where your ancestors were from.
Yes some people are born into religious families, but personally I think highlighting the word ‘descent’ is rather a tenuous link to saying the UN’s definition of racism can include religion.
And, when people mention they’re offended (simply because they can’t see the other side of someone’s argument), I instantly think of this comedian: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C9HRLvfbauA
Religion is not inherited.
No, not inherited but it is generally caught, like a virus, from one’s parents.
It’s funny how some people don’t see the irony in the insistence that we tolerate others’ lack of tolerance.
Maybe we should all do the same & try and get some kind of tolerance-Streisand-effect going?
The commenters haven’t exactly done much to deserve the respect they demand, have they?
I am so sad that there are people out there who find this offensive. how sheltered a life have they led that they can’t cope with the idea that jesus and mohammed may have crossed paths and shared a drink? if not on earth, then in the afterlife? Even a fictional idea of them doing it is apparently offensive? I don’t see why.
And certainly posting it on your own FB page, community or personal is fine. it is your content, and it is not illegal, and therefore if they are silly enough to take offense at it, then they need not visit your page anymore/follow/be friends whatever. to demand you take it down when any reasonable person, muslim or otherwise, would be fine with it, is ridiculous.
I am so disappointed in this world of ours, that everything everyone does seems to cause offense to someone, yet they still insist we stop our actions, purely because they don’t like it, even when they have the option to just no longer be anywhere near us.
Just a little reminder that UCL is known as ‘the godless institution of gower st’ because it was the first place to let non-catholics and even atheists study at university.
http://leiterreports.typepad.com/blog/2006/07/the_godless_ins.html
Oh irony..
Full disclosure: I went to UCL and now work there.
Seriously. Skeptics are NOT hipsters.
And well done Rhys, if only they realised how important freedom of expression was to freedom of religion…
Naomi Mc’s fab comment “…if only they realised how important freedom of expression was to freedom of religion…” has made my day!
Good work, Rhys, keep it up.
Pff. I was an atheist before it was cool…
The amount of ignorant hatred spewed by the bigoted never fails to amaze me. Apparently you can have freedom of thought and freedom of speech as long as you think and say what they want.
Bugger that.
This is hilarious, though: “if i call a gay person gay and said freedom of speech everyone would go mad”. Anyone for internalised homophobia?
Lawks, this stuff has got dull. It’s way past time we repealed the elements of discrimination law that pertain to religion. It seems to get people awfully muddled.
As to the references to poor David Hume – what on earth are these poor lambs being taught & by whom? I haven’t seen such a backasswards & ignorant misrepresentation of a philosopher since a young Wahabi gentleman tried to tell me what Nietzsche wrote.
As I recall, the section of Hume’s Enquiry dealing with the pointlessness of solipsism is fairly early in the text. Even a quite lazy reader should quickly be able to grasp that Hume’s mitigated scepticism is intended precisely to avoid the pitfalls of solipsism, or as he calls it “Academic scepticism”.
Tsk, yeah Rhys, that’s the main problem with you, you think your paragraph’s so big. And you keep insisting it’s got something to do with freedom of expression when people insist you stop saying things they don’t like. And… you think it’s racist to call gay people gay, apparently?
Yeah, I don’t understand a lot of this criticism.
and your lack of comprehension shows!
“…you have no right to put ur freedom of speech bullshit upon the rest of us…”
I cannot get over this sentence. As soon as I read it I burst out laughing. Ahhh >.< It's just so stupid! I can't even come up with anything to say about the rest of the argument because it's just so… agh :L
But it’s not even the prophet… http://www.jesusandmo.net/2005/11/24/body/
I’d like to repeat the crucial point here: “SpongeBob”?!
As in, Mr SquarePants?
Haha. I’m guessing they meant Mr Spongebob Squarepants
I’ve no idea either. Beyond me.
just discovered Spynjbob pantsgwar! Love it
It could be a reference to the campaign against Spongebob from a few years ago now, I think. A Christian group believed it promoted homosexualtiy to children. Y’know because of the clear gay relationship between a starfish and a sponge…there’s just so many things wrong with this notion that I really don’t know where to begin!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Evils%20in%20America/Sodomy/spongebob_and_homosexuality.htm
Even Fox news was dubious of this claim and that’s saying something!
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,145046,00.html
Some more Googling turned up this rather amusing piece to further indict Mr Squarepants-
http://www.progressivetheology.org/essays/2005.01.21-SpongeBob-Menace.html
Heeheehee
Wow – good but alarming post.
Intrigued by “i upload a pic of spongebob and thats ‘racist’ watch no one say nothinf, if i call a gay person gay and said freedom of speech everyone would go mad”.
Uploading a picture of spongebob is “racist” too?!? Interesting he uses a children’s character, because he seems to have the mind and writing skills of a child. The only difference being that, as you pointed out, even a 5 year old knows the difference between race, and a political and theological ideology.
I really don’t know why anyone is getting upset or worried about this image.
I mean, Islam is a religion of peace, tolerance and diversity, isn’t it?
It must be, because we hear the phrase from politicians over and over again. And surely politicians wouldn’t lie to us, would they? And certainly not to buy votes in marginal constituancies.
If it wasn’t a “religion of peace”, there’d be book burnings and death threats and people living in hiding for ten years and embassies attacked and women imprisoned for being the victims of rape and mass murders in schools and planes flying into buildings and trains blowing up and nightclub bombings and gays attacked on the streets of London and a massive increase in anti-Semitism in the UK and women threatened and in some cases beaten for not wearing a medieval symbol of oppression and posters declaring “gay free zones” in London and threats of marches on parliament if a particular Euro MP practises – shock horror! – his democratic right to free speech.
Yeah, imagine any of that happening. As if! Isn’t it wonderful to see the speed with which “community leaders” condemn the latest terrorist atrocity and say “not in our name”? The silence is often deafening.
All you can usually hear is the sound of a thousand chubby illiterate little fingers mashing the keyboard to complain that the BBC have reported it.
So like I say, being a religion of peace, there’s nothing to worry about with putting this image up. Is there?
And so begins what will be – in the eyes of some – your “tragic” journey from what is perceived to be “left to right”. Apparently, being against the subjugation of women, the beating of gays, the abuse of children and the rise in anti-Semitism makes me “a bit right wing”.
Incidentally, at some point, a variant of Godwin’s law is bound to see someone tell you that “all religions are just as bad”. Just ask them if they can recall any Buddhists flying planes into buildings or blowing up the underground lately.
And at another point, someone will tell you that “you’re a racist”. Except, it’ll actually be “your a racialist” because the rest of it will be the same illiterate ranting born of an education consisting mainly of rocking back and forth in a corner learning reasons to hate the people who almost certainly pay their lavish benefits.
I predict the comments on your post will be quiet and reasoned for a few days, then someone trawling the net for something to be offended about will post it in a forum somewhere, then you’ll find the blog in the middle of a shit-storm of caps-lock keyboard mashing for about a week before they move along to the next thing they’ve been told to be offended about. I’ll make another prediction: That you’ll be stunned and dismayed at how many people you might have previously thought of as “liberal” or left-leaning intellectuals will come out to attack you and support the political status quo of quiet respectful abject dhimmitude in the face of what, in any other circumstance, they would be comparing to fascism or intolerance.
Mind you, you’ve got a fair way to go before you reach the level of feedback aimed at this outspoken atheist and member of the national secular sociey: http://patcondell.net/page4/page4.html
Incidentally, if you’ve not seen Pat Condell on Youtube, check him out. He’s frequently nominated for Secularist of the Year by the NSS.
So, now you’ve had your baptism of fire, here’s some further reading you might enjoy. And the interesting thing is, all are written from the perspective of people who idealogical align themselves with “the liberal left”, but life-experience has led them to their “Damascus moment” in their 40′s as they realise that what some of their fellow liberals were aligning themselves with what is actually intolerance and iliberalism. Being the bright lad you are, it seems you’ve achieved this enlightenment about 20 years before them!
What’s Left?: How Liberals Lost Their Way by Guardian journalist Nick Cohen
The Fallout: How a Guilty Liberal Lost His Innocence by Observer journalist Andrew Anthony
While Europe Slept – by Bruce Bawer, a liberal art critic who “moved from New York to Amsterdam in 1998 and then Oslo in 1999, where he felt that he could live better as a gay man in a more liberal society but was shocked to find rapidly expanding Muslim enclaves in which women were oppressed and abused and homosexuals persecuted and killed. The European political and media establishment turned a blind eye to all this, selling out women, Jews, gays, and democratic principles generally—even criminalizing free speech—in order to pacify the radical Islamists and preserve the illusion of multicultural harmony.”
Hope you’ve called the police.
The guy is clearly a nutjob.